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Rules for philosophizing:
Rule 1. Back your argument up
Rule 2. Respect other people’s work
Rule 3. Know thyself
Rule 4. Be open to other ideas
Rule 5. Stick to the point
Rule 6. Discuss

If the topic you want to address is under discussion below, please insert your response there, instead of using the New Topic box. For design issues, visit [WWW]PI-Lab]


New topic:

dont enter into this box:


  1. Suspected Sockpuppetting
  2. Featured Wiki status
  3. The DMOZ
    1. We're listed
  4. Suggested topic: Obama and the Nobel Prize: When War becomes Peace, When the Lie becomes the Truth
  5. Not neutral enough: Climate Change responsibilites (neutrality)
  6. Design issue: font
  7. Need for neutrality
  8. Anomalies section
  9. Proposed investigation : Haiti earthquake prediction
    1. Informally, I'm off soon!
  10. Learning academese
    1. Was Heidegger a Nazi?
  11. pi-lab changes
  12. Proposed featured page / key thinkers page
  13. "PI in the news"
      1. The PI effect

Suspected Sockpuppetting

2009-09-12 11:04:26   Picasso banned from PI!

Hi all, as Editor-in-Chief and Chief Security Officer for PI, I have just banned 'Picasso' on suspicion of being a sock-puppet! —NormanNitram


2009-09-14 23:12:19   Stop messing the css, Doc - or you'll be following your mate 'Picasso...' —NormanNitram


Featured Wiki status

2009-09-17 22:05:07  

I asked Wikispot to consider changing their featured wiki, here

[WWW]http://wikispot.org/

- but not for the first time - no reply! Gnomes or other users... (are there any...?!)

I think it is 'in principle' okay to edit the space ourselves. What do others think though?

I honestly think the present WIki is a poor advert for the Wikispot site, and that we have now 'proved' that wikispot can do decent things. We are in principle offering to share our hard work witheveryone, not so much boasting! —NormanNitram


2009-09-18 14:03:51   Hi Norman, It recently came to my attention that your colleague recently resurfaced. His Larriness came back to public life just in time to give his royal approval to the recent project of creating a new charter for Citizendium. Not that it is ferociously interesting, but hey, this is a noticeboard!
ps: He's even back on facebook.... this motivated me to promote our global warming article on facebook. Received some favorable feedback... but not from Larry, of course!


2009-09-18 17:59:19   Links please, P-A!

I like a laugh...

p.s why not pop in and invite that rabble over>


2009-09-18 21:27:55   Okay guys, we've enhanced our green credentials, now back to the global warming debate. —NormanNitram


2009-10-16 17:27:47  

The DMOZ

I just found that Google was associated with the Open Directory Project. [WWW]http://www.dmoz.org/about.html; It is a good idea to suggest selected PI articles to this directory, no? —PerigGouanvic

- No harm, anyway, more the merrier, I guess. - NN

We're listed

under Science: Science in Society: Skeptical Inquiry with the science fascists and the pseudoskeptics!! YEY! — PG


2009-10-16 17:48:59  

Suggested topic: Obama and the Nobel Prize: When War becomes Peace, When the Lie becomes the Truth

Obama and the Nobel Prize: When War becomes Peace, When the Lie becomes the Truth
[WWW]http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15622PerigGouanvic

- Yes, but I seem to recall the style of articles it to be 'questions' not just assertions! There are surely some good questions to be asked about Obama. The 'Nobel' Prize seems a bit of a trivia topic to me, in tis own right... who cares who wins it? It's never been much more than a poltical statement, has it? Or have I sttumbled upon a PI-style question! - NN

— I like this point - go for it!
Does the myth of the single omnipotent leader serves the purpose of hiding the intrisically cooperative nature of the real power, which is transnational, and mafia-like? Perig. 23 oct 2009

- NN


2009-10-20 14:15:48   Re. whistleblowing on wikis...

[WWW]http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/oct/20/bnp-membership-list-wikileaksdocmartin


2009-11-02 19:29:03   Just browsing, I see 'even' Howard has given up on CZ...

[WWW]http://forum.citizendium.org/index.php/topic,2930.0.html

That only really leaves Matt and Martin B-E who still think there's something there to be in charge of! —docmartin


2009-11-18 19:52:15   Hi all,

I must apologise for not being on the site much recently - the fact is I've thrown my hat in the ring, so to speak, at Citizendium, to become the new 'Chief Constable' there, under the new editor in chief, whoever that may be. Obviously if successful, I won't have so much time here for keeping the users in order. —NormanNitram


2009-11-21 13:15:23   Norm, we need you. Please don't be tempted by riches! —docmartin


2009-11-23 15:35:11   I would like to say that PI without Mr Nitram would be much the poorer. Is there any way he could edit BOTH Citizendim and PI? —90.17.79.73


2009-11-26 01:35:45   I've added some citations on behalf of Martin, to protect him from accusations of copying - his own work! —NormanNitram


2009-12-03 06:04:31  

Not neutral enough: Climate Change responsibilites (neutrality)

2009-12-09 14:38:44   Climate Change responsibilites (neutrality)

Hi all. I have been deeply worried by the news coming out of Copenhagen about the climate catastrophe, and I want to insist that all our pages on the matter be properly 'neutral'. At the moment, Cohen has slanted them heavily towards the deniers perspective. Now I know it is going to be unpopular in some quarters, but I propose to ADD to each page a box, in the proportion 50:50 - that's fair, eh? - of what we might call the 'Copenhagen' interpretation.

Secondly, whilst these boxes are being prepared, I propose to make all the present pages readable only by editors/

Any objections? —NormanNitram


2009-12-09 20:28:18   I agree with Norman. When our seas are drying up even as we look, this sort of 'philosophical debate' seems quite inappropriate. —Georgenonbio


2009-12-09 21:59:58   Could you give us some examples, of what you mean, Norman? I honestly don't see how it helps here - I mean it sounds a bit like an idea intended to impress 'voters' over at your other project? —docmartin


NormanNitram adds

Here's how it would go on the Global Warming page, for example:


2009-12-11 13:50:05   Thanks Norman,if all your notes are as much fun as this one, I've no objection!

Here's one I've made for you, drawing on comments on the Times Higher site debate (J.M. Davidson's post).[WWW]http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=409454

Thanks, Perig. Okay! This is ready for the page, then!


2009-12-13 21:19:21   I love the colors —PerigGouanvic


Design issue: font

2009-12-13 22:59:14   Norman,

The font change (Georgia, 16px) is so interesting that I decided to leave it like that instead of proposing screen captures for others to compare. Here is, attached, the previous style.css. Perhaps 15px is slighty better... My personal design advisor likes the font size, she says that many sites are too hard on the eyes. here's the previous css and a screen capture of the previous font style + size. previousstyle.css
previousstyle.pngPerigGouanvic

I think the change is too radical to be taken just like that - can we set it up on the Lab and talk about the pros and cons? There are both... DM


2009-12-14 11:21:49   Yes, there are adbantages to the big font,a nd to the typeface. BUT it has completely devastated the lay-outs for many pages, and hence lots of time spent earlier fine-tuning pages. Put it back please, P-A! —NormanNitram


2009-12-14 12:20:16   Alright, here it is. —PerigGouanvic


2009-12-14 12:36:53   The style change was applied to pi-lab.wikispot.com. I started a discussion on the "style.css" page. —PerigGouanvic

Good - thanks P-A. I'll leave it to you and the Doc do argue over... right now I'm busy with canvassing. - NN


2009-12-14 23:07:34   P-A - All!


2009-12-15 19:52:45   Some ideas for your 'science fascists' (that's really not fair to them, they're not really scientists) - US green edition - maybe ?
[WWW]http://antigreen.blogspot.com/2009/12/noaaghcn-global-historical-climate.html —86.220.115.238


Need for neutrality

2009-12-19 22:58:54   I think this bears out my arguments for the need for neutrality - We must be careful not to offend our sponsors. I saw this comment for example, under Doc's article.

# Patrick Ainley 18 December, 2009

Further to my last contribution that you have not published: copy of letter ending subscription to the THE: Dear Mdm/Sir, Further to our phone conversation, I would be glad if you could send £29.48 (= the amount outstanding on my annual subscription to the THE) to Ethiopiaid POB 31052, London SW1X 9WB now that I no longer wish to receive copies of the 'dumbed down' 'flat earth' magazine to which the THE has been reduced. Please confirm when you have done this. Patrick Ainley. (I realise that this gesture on my part makes little difference to a magazine whose owners obviously do not care what is published in it as long as the adverts keep coming in but adverts are getting rather thin on the ground of late and are likely to get thinner, so subscriptions will become more important to them and they will be unlikely to allow the current staff to go on recycling press releases in the manner to which they have become accustomed. Hopefully we will then see an end to such 'opinion pieces' as last week's climate change denial which for me was the last straw! Even more hopefully, the gap left in the market by the degredation of the THE creates a space for a genuine news service dedicated to reflecting opinion and events in education. I intend to set up a Facebook Group to this end.)


2009-12-21 14:19:55   New People: New Topics I added a 'new topic', which was a cut and paste job of a dialogue I was having with Martin Cohen following his article in the THE. It seems to have disappeared though. As I'm new to this board, and I don't really know what it is (Martin recommended I 'continue on the Philosophical Investigations website') I don't know if I've posted correctly, or incorrectly, or offended someone maybe by posting without asking?
So, here is an ask: can I continue the debate with Martin Cohen on his article re: 'Beyond Debate?' specifically concerning the way in which he understands the 'rational' and its relation to ethics, politics, and epistemology. —NickBeech

Hi Nick,

Sure - Perig moved your points to the 'Global Warming/ Talk' page. But I wonder if what you want to debate is actually 'rationality'. In which case, we could start a new page called that. Just type it in the search box - and start it for us! The AGW is a possible starting point. And discussion of 'rationality' can be then straight off THAT page. If you just want to swap arguments with me about the Higher article, though, the 'Global Warming/ Talk' page makes more sense.

Thanks! I've gone to the 'Global Warming/Talk' page and continued there... — Nick Beech


2009-12-23 00:57:43   Nick, what happened is that I explained this deletion (as being a transfer to the GW page) in the comment box only (comments can be read by clicking the 'info' button, above, between 'edit' and 'discussion'). In any case, such huge deletions should be explained on the talk page. My apologies. —PerigGouanvic


2009-12-23 20:51:16   I hate to say this, but God is not pleased. His page is all messed up! (See the div at the bottom...)

[WWW]http://www.philosophical-investigations.org/God

I think we need a good bug check... —NormanNitram

I checked the 'featured pages' and hey - they still look great!


2009-12-24 00:56:55   It's not exactly a "mess up", more exactly that I had forgotten God when I led our subjects accross the desert to reach the land of non-profit wikis.PerigGouanvic


2009-12-24 07:02:22   Just to reiterate: i'm annoyed by this discrepancy between the size of normal text and titles! :-) —PerigGouanvic


2009-12-31 19:13:21   Hi Guys,

Just to say my new year resolution is... to clamp down on 'sock puppets'!

Watch out, Doc! —NormanNitram


2010-01-04 16:40:20   Hey people, we've got a nice Anomaly here for our kit: [WWW]http://www.skeptiko.com/eeg-expert-on-near-death-experience/
EEG Expert Can’t Explain Near Death Experience Data… and, Dr. Penny Sartori Finds More Than Hallucinations in NDE Accounts —PerigGouanvic


2010-01-09 05:05:58   I am proposing the following investigation to your attention and for inclusion in the live debates: Are men and women essentially different, or is it just self-indulgent pop psychology useful to divert people of real political and ethical issues?
[WWW]http://www.philosophical-investigations.org/users/PerigGouanvic/Girl_PowerPerigGouanvic

Sure - I think inclusion as 'live' is up to authors. It's the 'featuring' that is soo coveted. Once a page is 'featured' it means students all over the world can quote as a reliable source, you see. Sauce even! NN


2010-01-17 06:03:41   Please see the puerism / maternalism page for a new 'concept' for introducing frankly polemical or argumentative parts in stub articles. Opinion?
At least it's aesthetic!
(something like a complement to Norman'S neutrality notes, no?) —PerigGouanvic


2010-01-17 19:40:05   P-A, I'm fine with your article for 'approval' - although I have two suggestions.

1. The argumentative logo - great - but when a page is approved, it cannot be edited by 'outsiders'... so how does this work then? (The 'respond accordingly' bit...) I think given the nature of this page - we need to create NOW a 'responses' page and add some comment sto it too - kinda the neutrality thing again, yes! but also there's this problem about a debate page that we want left as a presentation of a view. (I agree that this is the thing to do here.)

2. The final gas chamber bit - are you sure your point is clear? I can't quite see what you are saying. The guy is not even named! It's ironic, yes, but also we don't want to be 'trivialising' do we? I suggest a bit of 'fact' to make clearer your implied comparisons? —NormanNitram


2010-01-19 18:07:40   Both points are well taken. I"ll work on that—PerigGouanvic


2010-01-19 19:35:00   I made a range of edits in several pages. I wanted to keep track of some stubs that might fall into oblivion, so I listed them on my page. Here is what it looks like:

Can life after death be proven?
What motivates British Neocons?
Why is difference feminism so unpopular among feminists?
Scientific Colonization
Can Civilization Be Based On A Coincidence?
Can the Internet ever become the elusive Library of All Knowledge?
What is Transhumanists' Cure for Humanity?

I also tried to standardize these pages. —PerigGouanvic


2010-01-19 21:53:58   Another fine featured page! That makes 6. I wonder, should we have a logo for all of these? It could say something about how they are not open for editing any more, but comments can be made. Any offers? Something discreet, though, eh? —NormanNitram


2010-01-19 22:21:24   er, was i clear in this last sentence? —PerigGouanvic


http://www.philosophical-investigations.org/Noticeboard?sendfile=true&file=pi_check.jpg

These are featured pages You may:
- Start a new page on a related topic
- Discuss the featured page
- Hit the road
- Go to wikipedia and tell how great these pages are
- Create something even better

(I'm not quite sure about the 3 last ones, but you get the idea)
— PG

... how about just one more, to make 3: Cite it in academic papers!
( better keep the exclamation mark I spose... )

DocM


2010-01-19 22:41:35   We could use this one?

just that i have no idea why. but it's cute. —PerigGouanvic

It's slicko!

— DocM


2010-01-21 08:40:21   Any suggestions for investigations that should be sent to 'Morsels

— again, it's a suggested name. i won't fight for morsels. —PerigGouanvic

We shouldn't fight over morsels either... I like the name, but it suits pages the never really got going best. A new category, in other words! New logos!

Re. the dormant/ not live anymore category, which most of our 'live' pages needed to go to, I think we still need to come up with the right name. How about 'dead'?! No longer squawking?

DocM

Go on! Cobwebs on the logo maybe?!

PI-vault.jpg

DocMartin


2010-01-21 20:20:53   I think the 'page turning' logo would make a possible image for 'live' debates, no? —AndreBriton

I think André probably had not noticed. Yes, the Green PI logo is rather tasty - subtle even! The page turner will come in useful somewhere, though?

-DM

Anomalies section



2010-01-23 23:52:15   I took care of Anomalies section. I linked to three articles without, however, removing the original links in Featured/Live articles. I also renamed the links, under this anomaly page, so that the anomaly is clearly stated:

The Binding Problem: How can perception be faster than nerve transmission?
Perceiving the touch and sight of an event is like receiving an email and a postcard that were sent simultaneously. How could the email and the 'snail mail' arrive at the same time? In physiology, they do — but 'normal scientists' turn a blind eye.

Mirror neurons, the organ of innate knowledge
... a neurological organ that apparently allows human beings to learn by imitation even when there isn't the slightest element to base the comparison, the imitation, on

Jasper's Axial Age
"The spiritual foundations of humanity were laid simultaneously and independently... And these are the foundations upon which humanity still subsists today."

I find this stimulating. -?


How about, for our dead articles, the following:

http://www.philosophical-investigations.org/Noticeboard?sendfile=true&file=pi_slip_transparent.gif

The following are unstuck articles. They do not adhere to PI's basic rules and principles. Feel free to improve those articles so that they can be submitted to the Live debates.

(with my french ears, i'm not able to tell if this little play on words is good)

—PG
I know, i know, it's not exactly what we meant by 'dead'... —PG


2010-01-24 01:55:29   Proposal: remove the "quick wiki tips" that appear in the "recent changes" page. —PerigGouanvic

Only Norman stands in the way of this, as far as I'm concerned - DocM


2010-01-24 03:34:43   A new icon for the paradigm destruction kit. a slight variance. feedback, please. —PerigGouanvic

This could be a page for the 'unstuck' category? Certainly that logo could be!

DocM


2010-01-24 03:36:37   Recent investigations should either go to the vault or to the featured pages, or am i desperately in need of an explanation 'for dummies'? —PerigGouanvic

As usual, the E-in-C did not explain his thinking - but I guess the answer is 'yes' (plus the other new categories) and hence 'au revoir' Recent investigations ? - DocM


Proposed investigation : Haiti earthquake prediction

2010-01-24 04:49:44   I would like to propose a new investigation, but i'm afraid it's a bit too heavy:

Who killed thousands of Haitians in january 2010?

it would be a reflection on the following article, a reflection on the way scientists are not listened to when it's not convenient.
[WWW]http://www.mondialisation.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=16945

Haïti, menace de catastrophe naturellle : Risque sismique élevé sur Port-au-Prince
En 2008 un géologue prévoyait le tremblement de terre
par Phoenix Delacroix
"En 1751 et en 1771, cette ville a été complètement détruite par un séisme. Je parie mes yeux que cela se reproduira. La science peut aisément le confirmer" —PerigGouanvic

I think it might make a suitable topic - à la Global Warming. Controversial but 'important'.

That nest of Science Fascists did print a good article on - pointing the finger at a few possible 'answers'

[WWW]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/14/haiti-history-earthquake-disaster

- DM


2010-01-24 23:35:28   Hope I'm not stepping on toes, but I've rushed in with my own 'version' of the new categories -. But this really is just an opinion tester, guys! You are welcome to edit me into the vault here... —NormanNitram


2010-01-28 13:30:02   Can Perig do his 'magic' to the new logos (esp. on the discussion pages) - and get the text to sit obediently next to them? Otherwise - it's one of my 'tables'! —docmartin


2010-01-28 19:02:35   Just added the picture of the Piltdown "man" (orang-utan) on the GW page.

Like it? —pg —PerigGouanvic


2010-01-28 19:44:45   Very seriously, I want our British Science Fascists to be under our Key Thinkers page (collectively). It deserves to be properly featured, but it is not in the spirit of our philosophical investigations, IMO. —PerigGouanvic

Well, they're not really 'thinkers' are they? Maybe we need a new category! - NN
Yes, a new category would be fine. I'm thinking about stg like:
The Guardians
The Thought Police
...

—PG


2010-01-30 23:40:57   Shouldn't we have the 'All pages' feature more prominent? maybe its own left button? —NormanNitram

I've protected the categories: Feature/ Live/The Vault from vandals/BSF types. Good idea? And I've deliberately left Morsels and Unstuck open to all. - NN


I'm getting more familiar with the "info" button, when I want to find the most recent noticeboard messages. I think that some people might feel lost, and that we could refer them to the info/history page of the noticeboard. A little sentence up there, before the "for design issues, ..." with a direct link to the history page, would be useful -? — PG


Informally, I'm off soon!

2010-02-01 20:25:27  

Good and bad news, for PI. Good news for me, bad news for PI. I've been informally offered the top-job at CZ, (the voting there was equally, as expected, 'just a formality!') and we're now just in discussions about the new team there - I want the best - Howard AND Harvey AND wotsisname - plus clarification about my remuneration. I'm thinking it should be rather more than Larry got, certainly in the WIkileaks scale of things.

[WWW]http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2010/jan/29/wikileaks-shut-down

Will keep you posted, of course. —NormanNitram


2010-02-03 23:38:51   How about some logos for the 'key ideas' and 'key texts'? —docmartin


2010-02-08 21:50:50   You know, the 'vault' is kinda spooky... —docmartin


2010-02-08 22:02:54   Foucault's pendulum experiment should be moved from Key Ideas to the paradigm destruction kit. May I? —PerigGouanvic

That's what you're being paid for, P-A!

(Once the oil industry money comes in for Doc's campaigning...)


Learning academese

Our friend Gabriel has this for me, for us:

academese.gif

source : [WWW]http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=405

ps: he will be back to PI soon, hopefully. Philosophy of the environment: thrilling, really!

Hi, I have another one for you :

http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive/phd091606s.gif

source : [WWW]http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=761

— Gabriel

I think these run in the Doc's 'Global Warming busting' magazine - the Times Higher Education, too.

But good to see them here - copyright permitting! They're bang on target.


2010-02-14 00:18:31   In the interests of er... balance:

[WWW]http://numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htmNormanNitram


2010-02-22 20:53:08   The PI Lab 'alert' (see Recent Changes) would would work better as an 'include', wouldn't it?

And maybe we could have an alternative image, so it only requres a quick double click to toggle between them?

BTW, our 'featured status has been 'edit warred' over with a bit at WIkispot Central... —docmartin


Was Heidegger a Nazi?

2010-02-22 21:06:00   Was Heidegger a Nazi?

Or, better, is his writing really in support of Nazi theory?

Do we need to debate this?

Judging from the Higher's comments (just a few but...) he's still pretty popular. Whiter than white!

[WWW]http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=26&storycode=410395&c=2

Comments here be appreciated! —docmartin


2010-02-24 13:55:02  

pi-lab changes

The [WWW]PI Lab has new data requiring editors' attention...
testtubes.jpg

may be more useful as a banner we put on the noticeboard when needed, no?
—PG —PerigGouanvic
2010-02-24 13:57:14  


2010-02-28 06:32:14  

Proposed featured page / key thinkers page

Socrates' Good Life and Real Knowledge
[WWW]http://www.philosophical-investigations.org/Socrates%27_Good_Life_and_Real_Knowledge

yes, no, perhaps?

— PG —PerigGouanvic


2010-03-01 23:56:07  

"PI in the news"

A new sidebar button for this would be appropriate? We have 1 (or 2) THE article and two others right now. We'll have more!

—PG —PerigGouanvic

Okay, that's a fairly modest start but!

I just wonder if we could have - on the same page- a second category of stories in the news which we can make some osrt of claim to have 'pioneered'. That way, we can add in things like the [Himalayas...] This bit could be more visual - use a graphic and link to our page sort of thing. Obviously the 'reality of the PI effect' is impossible to establish, but there's surely no harm if we suggest some! - Docmartin


2010-03-03 22:00:46   Great page here at CZ
- who says it's on its last legs?

[WWW]http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Wilmer_AllisonNormanNitram

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